Episode 33

full
Published on:

29th Dec 2025

Workshop Communication crisis: How Poor Leadership Training costs $1 million plus per year

In this episode we explore the twin complaints that plague automotive workshops: "I don't get good information" and "I don't get enough time." Andrew reveals why these complaints are interconnected and introduces the Quality Information Model (QUIM) - a three-part framework that transforms communication between customers, service advisors, and technicians. The discussion covers why technicians speak "technical" while customers speak "non-technical," creating a translation gap that leads to frustration on all sides.

Andrew shares practical solutions including pre-booking questionnaires with menu-style options that help customers describe problems accurately, and explains why these complaints often mask deeper fears about making mistakes or disappointing customers. The episode emphasizes shared responsibility - workshop success requires professionalism from management, service advisors, and technicians working together.

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab.

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

Production:

This podcast was produced by 'Podcasts Done for You' https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au.

Transcript
Anthony Perl:

Workshop Communication crisis.

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How Poor Leadership Training

costs $1 million plus per year.

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Join passionate automotive trainer and

coach Andrew Uglow as he exposes the

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:

hidden cost of promoting technicians

without leadership training.

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In this episode, you'll learn why the

automotive industry loses over $1 million

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annually per dealership to staff turnover.

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Discover the critical gap between

technical skill and people

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management and understand how proper.

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Perform and training could

transform your workshop culture.

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Along the way, you'll hear stories

including shocking data from KPMG's

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research on metropolitan dealership

losses, and why the best technical minds

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often make the worst people managers

unless they're properly developed.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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Let's get cranking

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Andrew.

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We should get on too.

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The toll topic of whether there is

enough information that is given to

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service advisors or not, or whether

they're just getting crap information.

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As you directed me before when we

were just talking about this before

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we started recording the program.

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It's really interesting area of the

right information and communication

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is such a critical element.

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And it can go astray really quickly and

they don't get the right information.

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It can just feel like you're

up against it in what you're

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trying to deliver in your job.

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I'm sure we've

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Andrew Uglow: spoken about this

in the past and I'd like to do

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this particular complaint with its

identical twin and it's identical

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twin is, I don't get enough time.

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I don't get enough time.

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You know, they expect, they

expect all of this to happen in

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a really short space of time.

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I don't get enough time.

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And if I was to, you know, rank

which complaints I get most

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frequently, it would be these two.

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I either get really poor information,

suboptimal information, crap information,

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or I don't get enough time to do the job.

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And I, I point to your experience that

you spoke about in the previous episode

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where you brought your car in, you

waited for it, and they go, ah, look,

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sorry, we, we, we didn't get enough time.

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Well, um.

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The, the poor technician on the

end of that, like, you dunno

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what's happened for the business.

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They might've had someone out at training.

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They might've had someone call in sick.

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They might have had someone

have a rostered sick day off.

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You know, it might've been warm and sunny.

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So they walked down the beach.

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I don't know.

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But the net result was, here's this

technician, and they're, they're

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like drinking from the fire hose.

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They're trying to get through all

this work, and they just simply can't.

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And so they didn't have

enough time to do it properly.

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And I go back to, in your example,

I go back to the idea that well let,

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let's go and review how that happened

in the business, because there's gonna

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be a couple of things that got missed.

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You go back to, well, you know, I've

only got certain number of techs.

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I've only got certain number of time

I can do, you know, I've got, we talk

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about workshop loading, the type of

work that I'll, I'll permit, you know,

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this amount of warranty, this amount

of retail, this amount of internal,

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all those sorts of things that, that

come into play around the background,

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around how that happened for you.

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But at the same time, it

shouldn't, shouldn't happen.

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That's not good customer service.

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And I go back to the idea of time.

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Which I'm gonna go.

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Time and information are directly linked.

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They are, like I said,

they are identical twins.

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And so, um, these, these are kind of

halves of the same face of the coin,

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you know, I don't get good information.

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Yep.

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Okay.

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So, and like we've said this before, I'm

sure, but let me call it out directly.

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The quality of information that the

technician gets is directly proportional

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to the speed and accuracy of their repair.

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Okay, so the quality, not the volume,

but the quality of information that the

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technician gets is directly proportional

to the speed and accuracy of their repair.

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And if they don't get quality

information, well, their first

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step is to go and get it.

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Because how do you fix anything?

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Anything

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Anthony Perl: if you don't

have quality information?

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I'll give you part two of my

story, Andrew, because it's

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going to add value to this.

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So.

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They fixed.

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As I said in the previous episode,

they fixed the issue fairly

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quickly when they got onto it.

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I was still at the dealership for

maybe about three hours before they,

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my car was obviously in the line of

things and they fixed that problem.

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Then they said at the end of

it, oh, by the way, you also

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need new brakes, new brake pads.

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I said, great.

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I said, we have to order them in.

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Okay, great.

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Order them in.

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I said, that should be four or five days.

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Fantastic.

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I waited.

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And I heard nothing and rang up and they

said, oh, well we didn't order that.

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And so then they proceeded to order it in.

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They did tell me as as well at the time

that it was getting close to being.

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You know, you really should get them

done as opposed to as a, well, I'll

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get it done in the next six months.

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And I do a lot of freeway driving, so

I'm like, okay, let's get that done.

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Anyway, they bring it in and I had said

to them, they were obviously aware of

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what had happened before, and I said,

I'm going to wait for this to be done.

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And that was where the information clearly

went to the technician and saying, all

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that needs to be done is this and this.

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It needs to be done quickly.

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I was in and outta that dealership in

about an hour, and I prepared to be there

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for, for another three or four hours

because of the previous experiences.

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But clearly the information that was

given to that technician at the time

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was, we need to do this quickly.

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This is all that needs to be done.

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Let's get it happening, and I was

in and out and that was fantastic.

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That was a great experience because

I actually was prepared to lose half

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a day and I got half a day back of

things that I could be doing, which was

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Andrew Uglow: under

promised and over delivered.

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So and, and I go back to.

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I go back to, there's two

different skills, isn't there?

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There's two different, two different

elements that we're talking about.

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One is fixing the car and like I point

to like maybe not every technician,

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'cause there's always special people, we

know this, but by far the vast majority

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of technicians want to do a good job.

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They take pride in their work.

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They, they genuinely want to perform.

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They get a thrill out of doing well.

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Like it's, it's personal to them.

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And versus the quote

unquote fixing the customer.

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And there are certainly

some jobs that we hate.

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In the industry as having wake jobs

and anything that is weird, like check

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engine lights, all that sort of stuff.

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We've got no idea what it's,

it's like this fog that you walk

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into and all we know and we talk

about the quality of information.

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All we know is that there's a light on.

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What does that mean?

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Well, that could be anything.

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Like most cars today and even

cars in the last five, 10 years,

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there's 10,000 different DTCs that

will bring up a check engine line.

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So, which.

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Or we know as the cars alike, we don't

know which one of those 10,000 might need

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to be looking at until I get onto the car.

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So doing that as a wait

job is problematic.

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So coming back to the idea of information,

there's a whole variety of different

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reasons why techs don't get good

information from service advisors.

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And

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I, I, I don't wanna throw service

advisors under the bus 'cause

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they do a really hard job.

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And again, like just about

everyone in the automotive in

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workshops is the meat and sandwich.

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You know, that there's, there's

two things pulling in opposite

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directions for each of them.

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And they get stuff from this direction.

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They get stuff from

that direction as well.

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So it's, it's no one's, no one's

living the life of Riley, can I say?

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You know, but one of the big

challenges for the technician

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is technicians speak technical.

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They think technical, they perceive

the world through technical lenses,

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and the service advisors just don't,

and the customers certainly don't.

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The customers don't even have the

words to use my car's doing something.

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It's, you know, and they come up with

whatever phrase they've, they've Googled

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and they're using language that may or

may not be correct, valid, accurate.

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It can have an entirely different

meaning in the language of technical

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versus the language of p technical.

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Anthony Perl: You know, it was almost

easier in the days before Google was

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so commonly available, wasn't it, when

they just rolled up to the dealership

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and said, I dunno what's going on.

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It's broken.

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Andrew Uglow: It's wrong.

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Something's wrong.

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Yeah.

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Um, one of the best questions, I'm sure

we've mentioned this before, one of the

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best questions that service advisors can

ask any customer is, is it doing it now?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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It's doing it now.

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Great.

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Show me, or let me get one of my

technical gurus and you can show them

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because service advisors are crazy time

poor, so not being technically skilled.

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And so as a consequence of this.

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We have two possibilities.

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Either what's said isn't what's

meant, or we end up with Chinese

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whispers, something got rephrased.

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And so we talk about service advisors,

capturing the customer's verbatim.

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I love that word, the verbatim.

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What a beautiful corporate generalization.

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We want to use the same words

the customer said verbatim.

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And that's really important.

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And at the same time, that's also

sometimes profoundly unuseful.

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And I go back to the fact that quality

information or valid information

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has three parts, and I think service

advisors haven't been taught this.

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Technicians.

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This is a revelation for technicians.

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When I teach this as part of

their diagnostic classes and our

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Resourceful technician formula.

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We talk about the quality

information model.

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The quim and quality

information is always explicit.

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Don't gimme vague generalizations.

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Oh, my car's funky.

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Oh, is it?

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Well, good for you.

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That's exciting.

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You know.

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Just what is, what is funky?

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You know, it, it, it busts

a move on a dance floor.

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Like, what, what is that?

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You know?

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So, so quality information

is always explicit.

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Always explicit detail and explicit.

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The second part is that it's being tested.

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So when you say stalling, you mean

the engine cuts out completely?

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Oh, no.

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It just moves up and down

and up and down and up.

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Oh, okay.

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So it's surging or hunting?

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It's not stalling.

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You tell me it's stalling.

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I'm testing a whole different

world of things to something

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that's hunting and surging.

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'cause they have different meanings

in technical versus in non-technical.

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It just drives weird.

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It doesn't feel right.

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It looks like it's going to stall.

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And so as a service advisor, my role is

to test that what you mean as a customer.

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And what I understand are in fact the same

thing because we're chasing the meaning

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as much as we're chasing the words.

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I need the words, but I,

I need the meaning more.

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And so quality information,

explicit and specific, tested.

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And the third part is, is usable.

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Don't say noise in car.

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We talk about this one all the time.

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Noise in car.

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Well, okay.

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That's no good.

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Do you like a hug?

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That must be really hard for you.

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Like.

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Can I buy you some earbuds?

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Can we do something about getting

a better stereo in your car?

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You know, like what?

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What is that?

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So you're in this expensive

mechanical device.

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Anthony Perl: It's the child in

the, in the child in the backseat.

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Would you mind taking

them for a few weeks?

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Andrew Uglow: There you go.

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Look, we've had all the proverbial,

like there was an ad years ago on

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TV for Volkswagen, and this guy's

driving his car and he's trying to.

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Open and close the glove box and

doing all this sort of stuff because

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there's this, this noise he can hear.

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He pulls over to this old mechanic

and the old mechanic gets into the

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car and listens, comes back and he

lubricates the girlfriend who's sleeping.

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Their earring was squeaking,

you know, and it was all about

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the quality of Volkswagen.

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And Volkswagen are awesome.

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Ask anyone who works for Volkswagen

and they'll, they, they might

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tell you that maybe, I don't know.

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Um.

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But this, this was the point that, that

we go back to the quality of information.

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What, what are we actually dealing with?

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Is the information that

you give me usable?

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Is it functional?

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So if you go, well, noise in car when

turning left or noise in car over speed,

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humps or noise in car on wet roads.

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Oh, okay.

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That's now a whole lot more

useful for me than, okay.

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I've got a large, expensive

mechanical device that moves over

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on even surfaces that has a large,

expensive mechanical device driving

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it, whether that's mechanical or

electrical, and it's making some noise.

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Well, okay.

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Anthony Perl: It's, Hey, everyone just

interrupting for a moment to remind you

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that the Frictionless Workshop Podcast

is brought to you by Solutions Culture.

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For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes

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and don't forget to subscribe so you

don't miss an episode of the podcast.

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Now, back to the show for Life.

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It happens sometimes.

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I'm not quite sure when it's

not happening right now, but it

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happened the other day, right?

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Okay, that, that should be useful perhaps.

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Andrew Uglow: And, and this is where

we have for customer facing staff, the

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same skills or type of skill shortage

that we have for technical people.

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And so just like it's hard to find good

technical people, it's also hard to find

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good customer facing people because.

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Like, there's a lot of money

at play with cars, right?

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And so some customers get very

upset because there's a lot of

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money, there's a lot at stake.

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No one wants to spend more money.

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I don't know of any customer ever who

woke up in the morning and goes, I can't

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wait to take my car into the dealership,

pay an enormous bill for something.

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I've got no idea what they actually did.

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I, this is so exciting.

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You know, I've got all this spare money.

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I think I'll invest it on, oh,

who knows what at a dealership.

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Like no one says that.

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And so there's a variety of

problematic elements in this, but.

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Why aren't we getting good information?

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Well, is it fear of customers?

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Is it fear of angry customers?

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Is it a lack of skill at

the service department?

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Is it time because

they're crazy time poor?

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Are we not booking our work correctly?

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You know, are we not booking

our customers correctly?

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One of the things that I find a

lot of businesses aren't doing

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is rebooking their customers.

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So if we go, ah, Anthony, thanks so

much for bringing a car in on Day x.

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Day y.

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Super excited to take

care of your car for you.

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Was there anything else

you want us to look at?

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If you click here for

yes, click here for no.

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And if you click yes, it takes you

to a, there's a thousand different

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things that it could take you to.

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But let's just go.

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Minimum viable product takes you to

a, a Google spreadsheet and it says,

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oh, Anthony, what's your problem?

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And you describe the problem and you

go, when does that problem happen?

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Well, this, this, and I can give

you, I, I love a menu, Anthony.

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You know when I go to KFC and they

go, hi, can I take your order, please?

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I go, can I have two or beef patties,

special sauce lettuce, cheese, B.

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The, the, I don't know

if you've tried this.

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I, I have.

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And you're gonna go, Andrew.

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Really?

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I've got Yeah.

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Idea.

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It seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Like a lot of my bad ideas,

they started out as good ideas.

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I just wanna stir the person

and there's this silence on the

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other end of the, the, the thing.

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We don't sell that it's not on

our menu, and I'm just gone.

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Thank you.

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And I go back to the idea of

offering the customer a menu.

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Having them chew stuff.

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They don't have the language,

they don't have the technical

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acumen, or give them a selection.

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Would you like fries?

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Would you like wedges?

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Would you like this?

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Would you like that?

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Is it hot?

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Is it cold?

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Is it we?

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Is it dry?

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Is it all the time?

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Is it sometimes?

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Is it at startup?

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Is it first 15 minutes?

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Does it last 15 minutes?

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Does it only happen after a third?

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Like give them a menu, have

them go, yes, no, yes, no.

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Yes, you can capture this in a sheet.

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And now I've quote unquote, got

the customer's verbatim and I can

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hand that off to the technician and

it was a Google spreadsheet and a

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link like, how long does it take?

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Realistically, how long?

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I can send them A-P-D-F-I, I

can send 'em a thousand survey.

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There's a million different

programs that can do this.

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Why aren't I doing that on the front end?

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So that'll save time in the dealership.

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That'll get what you are trying

to convey, because now you've

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got time to think about it.

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You're not standing there rushed, ah,

you know, I've gotta get the train,

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I've gotta do this, I've gotta do that.

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I've got all these other things.

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I'm like, well, you do it when you

got a chance to think about it.

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So we love menus.

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The flip side of I don't get enough

information and I don't get enough time.

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Well, looking at the time chunk

again, if we're gonna test this

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well, how are we measuring the

job, the time that I'm allocated?

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Is that valid?

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Is that what it really takes, or am

I trying to speed things up and push?

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What about the skill of the tech?

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And I go back to is it a matter

of skill or is it a matter of

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resourcefulness we are dealing with here?

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And resourcefulness isn't on

automotive radar, it just isn't.

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We use the vague generalization

of experience and it's a

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thing, but it's incomplete.

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It's actually a resource on us.

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What about the physical environment?

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You know, does the tech have to spend 20

minutes shuffling cars to get the car out?

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Now they're 20 minutes behind their

time because our facilities are choked

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with cars or, you know, customer

parked or the tow truck dropped

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off a car or something like that.

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And now the tech's pulling their

hair out, trying to meet a time.

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And all of these factors were

outside of their control.

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What about the cultural environment?

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You know, what's that?

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Because you take a good person,

put 'em in a toxic environment

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that they can't perform, they

can't, it's just not possible.

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Whereas you, you take an average

tech and put 'em into a good

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environment, they'll perform.

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They will.

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So what, what about the

environment we've created?

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And it's interesting when you start

to talk about technicians, you

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know, this whole idea of I get crap

information, and this whole idea

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of they don't gimme enough time.

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What's actually behind those complaints?

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And it's fear of screwing up.

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Like there's a genuine fear

of doing the wrong thing.

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I don't wanna upset the customer.

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I don't wanna cause

problems in the business.

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I don't wanna cost the business money.

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I don't want the shame of my peers

in the workshop thinking I'm a peanut

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because I made a stupid mistake.

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I don't want the social

consequences of failure.

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I don't want all these other

things, and it gets expressed.

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That's what's happening for them,

for the most part that I can tell.

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It gets expressed as I don't get enough

information, which may or may not be true.

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Or conversely, I don't get enough time.

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And that could be a skill problem.

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That

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Anthony Perl: could be

actually a time problem.

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Well, it could be

uncertainty, couldn't it?

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You know, of your own work and

saying, well, I feel like I

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think I've done the right thing.

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I've gotta go double check it.

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And that takes extra time.

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Right.

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And that is all because of

perception of their own ability.

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They may actually be spot on 99% of

the time, but they're still going back.

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For sure.

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Yeah.

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It can be a good thing and it can be a

bad thing, and it's how you manage that

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and communicate that as as a business,

which is gonna make a real impact.

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Yeah.

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And so I wanna ask for

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Andrew Uglow: these two things, you know,

not enough time as a tech and not enough

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or not good information, poor information.

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The test that I wanna ask is,

where's professionalism in this?

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If we're gonna be professionals, right?

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Like I'm being paid to show up.

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So that means if I'm taking the money,

that makes me a professional, if I'm

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doing it out of my own free will, 'cause

I've got nothing else to do with my time.

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I'm a volunteer, different level

of expectation for volunteers.

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But because I'm being paid here,

the expectation is professionalism.

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And so where is professionalism in this?

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And I go back to professionalism

in workshop management.

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Better workshop leadership here.

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Am I giving my service

advisors enough time?

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Am I coaching my customers?

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Am I training my customers

on adding good customers?

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You know, because that's part of my

responsibility as a service manager,

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and I know that sounds really

manipulative, but I'm gonna go, no.

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It's actually, if I've got good customers,

I can serve good customers better.

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You know, I can be more productive, I can

be more efficient, I can add more value

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because the customer's a good customer.

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You know, so let's coach our

customers to be good customers.

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Let's coach our front customer

facing team to lead customers

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rather than just serve customers.

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'cause they're two different things.

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Where's professionalism

for the technician?

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Where's quote unquote

development for the technician?

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Gosh, where's development

for the service manager?

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You know, like.

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I, I, I keep coming

back to this same piece.

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And again, you know, what's that saying?

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When, when all you have is a hammer,

all the world looks like a nail.

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Right?

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Prove.

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But it's a gap.

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It's something that we don't do.

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We do bits of, but we just, we miss

there's some, not just some gaps.

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There's some absolute gaping holes in

what we do, and it's, it's hurting us.

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It's hurting customers.

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It's hurting profitability,

it's hurting reputations.

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It's a big deal.

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:

So, you know, not enough time.

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:

Mm.

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:

Well, let's go and test for that.

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When you say not enough time, how

do you mean and crap information?

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Well, we can test that.

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We use the quality information model.

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Is it explicit?

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Have you tested that?

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What you think it means is what the

customer meant and is this information

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useful or is it just, I don't know,

an emotional unload because emotional

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unload isn't gonna help me fix the car.

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:

It's just not useful.

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Like by all means, work with

the customer emotionally because

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it's a stress, it's a thing.

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:

Do that.

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:

Anthony Perl: What's interesting

in this day and age where we have

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so much technology available to

us, that old idea of let's go back

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:

and check the tapes sometimes.

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That's actually a really interesting

thing to do because I'd swore they

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:

didn't say this, they didn't do this.

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'cause it could be just a listening

thing and not, and the information was

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:

actually there, but they actually just

didn't take it in in the right way.

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:

Maybe they didn't read it the right way.

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:

Yeah,

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Andrew Uglow: for sure.

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Um, you know, or, or they

were stressed and they've just

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done a skim and they, they.

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Skimmed it.

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:

They didn't read it, and that's the thing.

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:

Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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:

I think it is really an important

thing for the technicians to understand

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:

that there's some self-examination

that needs to happen in this process.

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It's never one thing.

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Gosh, if it was one thing, we would've

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Andrew Uglow: fixed it decades ago.

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It's usually a complex compound

thing and shared responsibility,

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Anthony Perl: and there you have it,

the staggering cost of leadership

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:

gaps in automotive workshops.

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But we're not done yet.

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In this series, we are tackling

the ultimate complaint that

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underpins everything We've

discussed the breakdown of shared

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responsibility between technicians.

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And management.

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Andrew Explores why Workshop success

requires both technical excellence

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and emotional intelligence and

shares how to create accountability

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without blame will reveal why the

US versus them mentality is killing

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your profitability and how to build a

truly collaborative workshop culture.

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Shared responsibility drops in a

couple of weeks, so make sure you're

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subscribed so you never miss an episode.

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This is the Frictionless

Workshop Podcast produced by.

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:

Podcast done for you online.

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:

All details in the show notes.

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About the Podcast

The Friction-less Workshop
For automotive dealerships and aftermarket teams
If you own, manage or work in an automotive workshop – this podcast is for you. Andrew Uglow has followed his passion for discovering the secrets of how things work and how to fix them,
since falling in love with all things ‘cars’ as a teenager,

Always ‘hands-on,’ whether as an apprentice, working in national roles for global manufacturers, or running his own business, his quest for the how and why of both people and technology has given him a unique and important perspective, especially timely for the challenges facing today’s workshop owners, managers, and their teams.

Hear from someone who has spent decades training thousands around the world on how to succeed in their roles despite all the obstacles. You will learn new insights and stories about what works and what does not, including the simple tips and tricks that will make a massive impact

This is a unique podcast for the automotive industry with a perspective born from decades of hard-won experience.

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab.
Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

This podcast was produced by 'Podcasts Done for You' https://commtogether.com.au .