The Recognition Revolution: Why Your Best Technicians Feel Invisible

Anthony Perl: 00:00:01

The recognition revolution, why your best technicians feel invisible.

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Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he explores

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why technicians feel unappreciated

and unrecognized in modern workshops.

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In this episode, you'll learn

the critical difference between

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validation and recognition.

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Discover how the.

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Five to one positive feedback

ratio transforms workplace

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culture and understand why career

progression isn't always about

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climbing the management ladder.

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Along the way, Andrew shares some

great stories, including groundbreaking

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research from orphanages that reveals

the exact ratio of positive to negative

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feedback needed for human flourishing.

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And why Promoting your best

technician to management.

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Might be the worst

decision you've ever made.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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Let's get cranky,

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Andrew.

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I think we should take a look

at another source of complaint

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that happens, which is.

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They don't get enough

recognition technicians.

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Yeah.

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Is that true?

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How do we tackle that one?

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Because recognition is such

a difficult one, isn't it?

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Because it's everyone's different in

how they might perceive that, right?

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Andrew Uglow: So this plays in,

and there's been some really great

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studies around this David Rock with

his scarf model and you know, the

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social brain, you know, and the sort,

sort of different things that people

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value, different personality styles

have different drivers for what's

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important to them and being perceived as

valued and appreciated and recognized.

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And like, if you really wanna dive

right into it, you know, you can start

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to talk about the, you know, the love

languages and all this sort of stuff.

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Like there's a whole scale

and, and variety of different.

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Research and ideas around this.

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I also want to, in this one, you

know, I don't get enough recognition.

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They don't care, is kind of

the underpinning vibe here.

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And it also has a, I don't know, a sister

or brother and that sister or brother

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is, there's no career progression because

recognition and progression are kind of,

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I don't know, first cousins or something.

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They're, they're very related.

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And so I asked the question,

well, okay, so you don't feel

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that they value your contribution?

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Is that what you're telling me?

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Or is it you just, is it something

else happening for you internally

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at a deeper personal level and

it's about your self worth?

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You know, which, which one

of these are we dealing with?

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Or is it both?

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And so we wanna test this because I'm

not sure that it is the business's

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job to be responsible for meeting the

individual's personal psychological needs.

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Now, I, I'm not suggesting that

you can ignore them, and at the

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same time I'm gonna go, well, whose

responsibility actually is that?

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Because that's the technicians.

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Really, that's, and maybe there's some

learning that needs to happen there.

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Maybe there's some training

that needs to happen there.

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And this is, can I offer, this is

something again, the, the industry in

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general, but automotive industry is

horrific at just really, really bad at

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dealing with, they just play at one,

one level, one axis, and they never

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understand and haven't understood

and don't seem to want to understand

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what's actually really going on.

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For people.

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So I'm gonna get to, to answer

the question, don't get enough

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recognition or appreciation.

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Is that true?

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Yes, it is absolutely positively

true without question.

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And I double dog dare anyone

like here and now I double dog.

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Dare anyone listening to

come out and go, Andrew?

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Actually, no, that's true.

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I, I feel deeply appreciated in

the workshop that I work for.

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I can't wait to get outta bed on

a Monday morning and go to work

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because I just know that I'm gonna

have a fantastic day 'cause it's the

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best workplace I've ever worked in.

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Now show me those people.

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Which can I say is like we, we joke about

that, but that's profoundly sad, isn't it?

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Like, yeah.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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It's an interesting one, isn't it?

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Because people's reaction to this

kind of stuff, it's so different.

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And I think we live in an age

where people want immediate

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recognition all the time, right?

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Isn't it?

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It's just with, you know,

social media's like that.

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It's causing us to do that.

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Why haven't people looked at my

post in the last five minutes?

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Why is there only this many

likes versus not that many?

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What does recognition actually look like?

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And it's great dopamine hit that

people are striving for all the time

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that they can't really put their

hands on, on what it actually means.

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And,

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Andrew Uglow: and Simon, Simon

Sinek does some outstanding work in

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this area if you wanna understand

what's what's actually going on.

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One of the things that we know

about, and we'll call it out, right?

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We'll call, talk about millennials.

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This plays out and I see, again, I

train people and coach people that are

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just starting their apprenticeship,

and I also work with people who've

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been in the industry for as long or

longer than I have, but I get the

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same complaint across all of them.

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One of the big changes though,

between the different generations

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is I generally find that the older

generation are looking for more.

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Appreciation for results, whereas the

younger generation are looking, tend

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to be looking for more validation

as a person, as a distinction.

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And so the idea of validation versus

recognition, what are we talking about

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here that would be worth testing and.

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One of the things that we know about the

new generation is that they wanna work

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in a workplace that they can contribute.

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That, that what they do has

a meaning, has a purpose.

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They wanna leave a mark, but

they wanna do it yesterday.

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You know, like they, they

go, well, you know, I want to

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shift and change the industry.

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Well, that, that's a process.

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It's not an event.

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And so I go back to the idea of

how we run businesses and we run

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businesses with a financial frame.

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We take a financial management approach

to looking after people and people go,

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well, you know, no, we don't just do that.

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Yes and no.

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That's the underpinning thing,

like when it all gets stripped

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back, it comes back to the money,

it comes back to the dollars.

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And I don't know a person ever

who at school, you know, when they

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said, you know, Andrew, what do

you wanna be when you grow up?

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Uh, I wanna be a hundred

percent efficient in a workshop.

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I wanna be 150% efficient in a workshop.

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I like, I dunno, anyone that said that.

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But I know, I know, I know a stack of

people, hundreds, arguably thousands

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of people go, I just wanna fix cars.

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I just wanna work on cars.

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I wanna be around technology.

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I wanna, I wanna find

problems and fix them.

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I, I, I want to, you know, that's

what I want to do when I grow up.

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You know, that's, that's the

sort of thing I want to make a

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difference with my hands somehow.

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Anthony Perl: And that's the

interesting thing though, isn't it?

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When you talk about that and people

wanting to make a difference, pairing

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that with the idea of recognition,

a lot of it comes in that concept of

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recognizing people in a way that's

more casual and less, you know, people

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often think about recognition is,

well, we've got an end of year rewards.

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You are going to get the award for,

you know, or, or we have employee

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of the month and they're nice.

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Don't get me wrong.

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Those things can be nice, but

recognition can often come by, you

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know, the manager coming in and say,

you did a great job today, Andrew.

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I really think that what you did there,

it was efficient, it was well done.

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Thank you.

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That sometimes is everything in comparison

because it builds that emotional bond,

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which is what recognition is really about.

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Right, and and

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Andrew Uglow: this is one of the

pieces that's a huge gap in certainly

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have workshops are managed as we try

to manage it without the emotion.

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Like I say, we apply financial model

and like when you are managing a

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business, functioning from a financial

frame is a very, very sensible,

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reasonable thing to do, right?

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Like please.

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Don't stop doing that.

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And at the same time, don't apply

that model to working with people.

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You need a different model

to manage the people, right?

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Because the people produce your results.

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And so the people have emotions

and so you need a model that can

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facilitate that, that can encompass

that separate to, but in parallel

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with the financial model, right?

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There's, there's

crossovers, they're related.

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There was a study done and years

ago, and I went looking for,

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I wrote some notes on this.

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I was in a training event.

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I cannot, for the life

of me find the study.

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So I can't quote this, but I do have

what I wrote down, and this is going

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back some years, this is the sort

of study that would be banned today.

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Like they, the people would be arrested

and thrown in prison as child abusers.

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And arguably they

probably should have been.

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But this particular study was done in

an orphanage, and what they looked at

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was the amount of positive reinforcement

versus negative reinforcement.

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What's the ratio?

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It was somewhere in the vicinity

of five to six to one, so for five

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to six positive reinforcements

to one negative reinforcement.

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What they got was a more balanced,

better behaved, more settled person.

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And remember, we're

dealing with kids, right?

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They found that more than that

didn't make any difference.

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Less than that had a negative impact.

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That was kind of the scale.

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And so the question then was

asked, well, what is it today like?

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What is the ratio that we generally, we

as people experience in data to day life?

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And so rather than five

positives to one negative, it's

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one positive to 22 negatives.

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And you just go, well, you just

go, okay, let's presuppose that.

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That's true.

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Maybe it is, maybe it's not.

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But let's pretend that that's true.

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What sort of impact is

that having on the people?

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You know, if happy people

make good employees and good

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employees are profitable?

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If I'm backwards in terms of recognition,

appreciation at a scale of 22 to

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one, like how is that helping people?

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How is that facilitating, you know,

any sort of motivation, engagement,

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all these sorts of things that we

know make a difference to business?

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Bottom line.

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Anthony Perl: Thank you for listening

to the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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The details on how to

get Andrew working with.

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You and your technicians take

a look at the show notes.

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There's also a link to some

special content you can access.

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I'm Anthony Pearl reminding you to

subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

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And I suppose you've gotta look at

that as well and saying, okay, there's

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two ways of looking that 22 to one is

saying, okay, is it because we really

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couldn't find anything positive about

this person to say and therefore.

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Problem actually is the person, maybe

it's time to move them on versus we

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are just not very good at recognition.

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And those 22 incidents that we talk

about may have been over an extended

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period of time and we've missed daily

opportunities to recognize people.

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Right.

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Andrew Uglow: And, and, and now we're,

I think we're really starting to get

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to the crux of this concern, and I

point to this with career progression

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too, just as a a, a slight deviation

before coming back, oh, there's no

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career progression in automotive.

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Well, where do you wanna go?

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So I start my time as an apprentice

and let me talk about me.

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Just, what's that joke?

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That's enough about me.

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Tell me what do you think of me?

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But let me give you my story.

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So I was really fortunate.

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I was one of 200 people that applied

for an apprenticeship and they

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were mad enough to give me one.

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So I left school at 15 and because

I got an apprenticeship, 'cause

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they were so hard in anything,

you know, they were hen's teeth.

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And so I figured that, well I'll just

go back to school at the end of it.

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If I hate it, I'll get my trade.

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'cause this is the, this is

the feedback that we had.

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You know, Andrew, get a trade, get a job,

get a school and you'll be right for life.

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Or you'll always have a job.

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And the yes, that's been largely true.

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So I did my time as an apprentice.

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I then moved into workshop.

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I started to run the workshop.

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I moved out of aftermarket into

dealership, and that was a bit

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of a cultural shock for me.

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I became the.

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I was gonna say, I became the problem.

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No, I became the problem solver.

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Arguably, I created a few as

well, that all the weird, funky,

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bizarre cars were, were my thing.

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I was never the fastest tech in

the workshop, but gee whiz, I

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could untangle some weird, funky

stuff that was, that was my skill.

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And so out of that, I moved into

training because I hit that threshold

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where it's like, well, hang on a minute.

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I'm doing the automotive

equivalent of walking on water.

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You know, like I'm producing miracles

for you day in, day out, and you,

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you're paying other people more than me.

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And I go back to that idea, you're

not paying me enough money, and

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how do you do your comparison?

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And so I moved into training

because training paid more

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money and it used my skill.

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And so from training, I ended up running

training to being national training

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manager to moving into my own business.

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And I go, well, if there's

no career progression.

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If that's really where do you want to go?

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Do you want to own a workshop?

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And people go, oh no, I don't

wanna deal with customers.

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Well, okay, don't deal with customers.

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I talk about the idea, the

difference between career

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progression and development, which

are you actually looking for?

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Do you want all this responsibility or

do you wanna get better at what you do?

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Do you wanna be developed as a person?

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Do you want to have you know more impact?

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Is training the path for you?

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Is workshop management the path for you?

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Do you wanna take these skills that

you've learned in automotive and go

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and apply them in business because.

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Again, let me put on my automotive

hat, and again, I double dog dare

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anyone to tell me that I'm wrong.

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If you can be successful in an

automated workshop with the complexity

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of technology, with the intensity

and density of information, with the

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time pressure and the expectations

placed on you, if you can do that.

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If there is very little in life that

you're gonna come across, that's harder.

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Like unless you're making cold fusion

in your back, she, or something like

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that, you know, like you're dealing in

the realm of theoretical physics, you're

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gonna be hard pressed to find something

more stressful and more difficult to do.

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And so if you take those skills well,

who says that you have to stay in

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automotive or maybe you do, maybe

you go and start your own business.

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Maybe you like there.

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There's all of these opportunities.

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So the idea that there's no

career progression, what are

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you actually looking for?

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And I'm gonna argue that it's development.

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That's the piece that

they're talking about.

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For the most part.

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Certainly this is what I've discovered

in talking with Tgo, there's no

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career progression and it's like,

well, actually, what do you wanna do?

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Yeah, what do you want?

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And what are you prepared to do about it?

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And that's the discussion

that needs to be had there.

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Coming back to the idea of not enough

recognition, the excuses that I get

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and you know, call it recognition,

call it progression, whatever the

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excuses I get is time pressure.

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Oh, we're so busy.

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We we're so busy, you know, we don't

have enough staff, we don't have this.

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The customer's evil, da da, da.

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Sure.

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Got it.

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That's the reality.

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And at the same idea that is just the

tip of the iceberg, throwaway, flimsy,

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easy scene through narrative excuse.

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It's palava.

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I, I go back to, well, what are

your ideas and perspectives on

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recognition and appreciation?

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Oh, well, they should be

grateful to have a job.

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Okay.

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And like often what we find is when

we start to test this with management,

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not always, but often we're operating

out of flawed values and we're

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operating out of antiquated beliefs.

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And if we were working with

people in the: 1850

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be perfect, but we're not.

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Society has emerged and

developed a lot since then.

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And so I would describe this as.

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Non-development.

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This should have been addressed.

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This should have been taught,

this should have been been like,

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here's the framework for coaching.

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Here's the framework for encouragement.

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Here's the framework for giving feedback.

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Here's, and people don't have this.

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And so as a consequence

that people suffer.

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And so are people feel disengaged

because this is, sure, it's a financial

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business, but it's emotional, the work.

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And if you don't address the

emotion well, it stays unaddressed.

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And that has different ways of out working

in behavior and none of them are good.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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And emotions.

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It's such an interesting one as

well, because sometimes, not always,

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always just about the work itself.

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: 00:15:14

Is it, I mean, it is about,

uh, shared values and beliefs.

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It's the recognition can be for.

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: 00:15:22

Hey, good on you for taking your

family away for the weekend.

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: 00:15:25

Or it doesn't have to be about the work,

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: 00:15:28

Andrew Uglow: it's, it's about the

relationship and actually giving a damn

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: 00:15:31

about the people that invest their time

in your business to look after your

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: 00:15:34

customers and appreciating for that.

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: 00:15:36

And I go back to there's,

we talk about the three Rs.

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We talk about reward, recognition,

and resourcing, and these are like

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the three big drivers that if you

aren't addressing those things,

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you're gonna get some really.

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Really direct feedback

as a consequence of that.

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And people will abandon your business in

spades because they don't have all of, or

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some of those, and I go back to the idea.

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If we start looking in dealerships

specifically, or larger workshops

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where we've got a team of people

in the past, historically that

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was the role of informant.

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: 00:16:06

Like who has more face time with any of

your texts, you as the manager or the

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: 00:16:09

owner or your foreman slash workshop

controller who has more FaceTime,

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: 00:16:13

well that would be the controller.

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: 00:16:14

Foreman out nine times outta 10.

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: 00:16:17

Unless you're in a small shop

that in a bigger shop, sort of

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: 00:16:20

eight plus, it's your foreman.

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: 00:16:22

So who's responsible then?

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: 00:16:24

Who's the professional here

that's responsible for doing that?

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Well, that's the foreman.

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: 00:16:27

Did you teach him how to do it?

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: 00:16:29

Did you give him any training?

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: 00:16:31

Did you give him any people

skills like any, or did you just

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: 00:16:34

give him technical training?

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: 00:16:36

Because if you just gave him technical

training, he'll be awesome technically.

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: 00:16:39

But what about his people skills

And automotive industry is guilty

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: 00:16:43

as charged is just profoundly

dysfunctional in the idea of promoting

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: 00:16:48

people and never giving them training.

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: 00:16:50

And it is, it is the cause of so

much pain, so much anguish, so much

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: 00:16:58

customer dissatisfaction, so much

job dissatisfaction and the impact

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: 00:17:02

that it has on the bottom line of

the business is breathtaking If,

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: 00:17:05

if we actually cared to measure it.

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: 00:17:08

Meaningfully measure it.

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: 00:17:09

It is, it's, it is horrendous.

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: 00:17:12

Just as a indicative close, uh, KPMG,

the big accounting firm did a, uh, back

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: 00:17:18

in, I think it was 2022 or 2023, did a,

a dive into the cost of staff turn in, in

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: 00:17:25

metropolitan dealerships, and the average

metropolitan dealership loses more than

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a million dollars a year in staff Turn.

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: 00:17:34

And, and so the question is, well,

why are we turning so many staff?

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: 00:17:37

Is everyone really that poor?

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: 00:17:39

Are they really that crap at their job?

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: 00:17:41

Or is there something else going on?

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: 00:17:43

Because if it was one or two people yeah.

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: 00:17:46

You'd point to the person, oh, you

know, we can't find good people today.

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: 00:17:49

Sure.

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: 00:17:49

Got it.

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: 00:17:50

And with respect, you can't make

chicken salad from chicken feathers.

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: 00:17:52

Right.

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: 00:17:53

You, you, you gotta have some,

some quality to start with.

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: 00:17:56

But a million dollars, like a

million dollars, like most people

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: 00:17:59

don't have that in their super.

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: 00:18:02

A million bucks a year,

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: 00:18:04

Anthony Perl: and it's, I think, Andrew,

there's a whole different topic that

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: 00:18:07

we might get into in another, in a

future episode, but the reality is

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: 00:18:11

that promoting the best technician

to be the manager isn't necessarily

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: 00:18:17

always the right decision because

management itself is a particular.

389

: 00:18:24

Path a career and not

everyone is up for that.

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: 00:18:28

And sometimes it's about who is the best

manager versus who is the best technician.

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: 00:18:32

And that can be what leads to this

whole issue that you've been talking

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: 00:18:36

about in terms of recognition problem.

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: 00:18:38

Because the right person to be the

manager is not in that position.

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: 00:18:43

Andrew Uglow: Right.

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: 00:18:43

And I go back to the idea

of career progression.

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: 00:18:45

Okay, there's, there's some

people who can do it, there's

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: 00:18:48

some people who can't do it.

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: 00:18:49

There's some people who could but won't.

399

: 00:18:51

And there's some that

absolutely positively shouldn't.

400

: 00:18:53

Like, just do not promote that person.

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: 00:18:57

And it is, it's, it's not,

it's, what's the word?

402

: 00:18:59

It's not a, a metric of

their value as an individual.

403

: 00:19:02

It's just you don't have the skill

or you don't have the personality.

404

: 00:19:05

You're far better off paying, being

paid more money to fix cars because

405

: 00:19:08

that'll be a far better outcome

for everyone yourself firstly.

406

: 00:19:12

But also the business and the customers.

407

: 00:19:14

Then moving you out the front

to work with customers and you

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: 00:19:16

hating your life because of it.

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: 00:19:21

Anthony Perl: And that wraps up our

exploration of recognition and validation

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: 00:19:24

in the workshop, but we're just getting

started with the technician's perspective.

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: 00:19:27

Coming up next, we are tackling one

of the biggest myths in automotive.

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: 00:19:31

The idea that there's no career

progression for technicians.

413

: 00:19:34

Andrew shares his personal journey from.

414

: 00:19:37

Practice to business owner and

reveals why automotive skills prepare

415

: 00:19:41

you for life's toughest challenges.

416

: 00:19:43

Plus, we'll explore career paths that

most technicians never considered.

417

: 00:19:47

The career progression myth drops

shortly, so make sure you subscribe

418

: 00:19:52

so you never miss an episode.

419

: 00:19:54

This is The Frictionless Workshop podcast,

produced by podcast done for you online.

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: 00:20:00

All details in the show notes.