Technician pay reality check. Are they really underpaid or missing the bigger picture?

Anthony Perl: 00:00:01

Technician pay reality check.

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Are they really underpaid or

missing the bigger picture?

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Join passionate automotive trainer

and coach Andrew Uglow as he tackles

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the most common technician complaint.

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I don't get paid enough.

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In this episode, you'll learn why.

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Comparing technician wages

to other trades, Mrs.

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Crucial context, how lifestyle

choices impact financial perception

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and discover practical strategies

for addressing compensation

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concerns beyond just raising pay.

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Along the way, Andrew shares some

great stories, including our simple

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overtime test reveals, whether it's

really about the money and why teaching

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financial management might be more

valuable than salary increases.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Perl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

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Let's get cranking.

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Andrew, welcome to another series of

the podcast, and we've got a really

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interesting topic we're gonna go

through in this series in particular.

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But

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Andrew Uglow: firstly, welcome.

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Thanks Anthony.

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It's good to be recording

another podcast again.

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It's a funny dynamic, isn't it?

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You, you think you've said everything

or, or maybe people think they've heard

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everything that you have to say, whichever

way you look at it, and things emerge.

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Things change you.

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You come across new information

and it's like, well, actually, this

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would be really useful for people.

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It's always interesting because there's

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Anthony Perl: always more, and I

think exactly what you just said.

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Suddenly there is this different

perspective or there's something that

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you've covered and we get the feedback

as we've had to explore things in a

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different way, in a different light.

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So I think in this series

we're going to really take the

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technician's perspective, aren't we?

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We're going to really have a look

in a lot more detail and things

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that might be impacting them.

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Andrew Uglow: Sure.

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So when.

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Customers come into a business.

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So if I'm a, a service manager, a workshop

owner, customers come into my business,

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they come into, essentially what they do

is they come into, within my business,

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invest in the reliability of their car.

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That's why they're there.

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And they do that by purchasing

parts from me as the workshop or

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the workshop manager and purchasing

skill from the people that I.

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So when something isn't right

with a customer's car, we end

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up with a customer complaint.

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And so it usually forms into

one of two types of complaints.

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My car is doing something that it

shouldn't, or conversely, it isn't doing

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something that I was expecting it to.

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And so we collect the data from the

customer and we go through a diagnostic

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process, and perhaps one of the more.

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Common diagnostic processes is the

six step troubleshooting process.

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If you're not familiar with

that, Google that stuff.

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It's a, it's a pretty good process.

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And we then go through and unpack

and discover what's actually

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going on with the vehicle.

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Because very often what the customer's

complaint is, is a symptom as

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opposed to the cause of a problem.

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And so what I wanted to do

for this series is I wanted to

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go and take that same frame.

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And go, well, have we ever actually

sat down and done some diagnosis,

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some six step troubleshooting, if

you like, on the technician's claims.

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Complaints that they give

us by way of feedback.

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And if you're a workshop service manager

or workshop owner, you'd be familiar with

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the the complaints that technicians do.

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And so I've collected a bunch of the

most common complaints that pop up in

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training, so working with technicians

quite regularly, which I thoroughly enjoy.

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And this is the sort of stuff that just

comes up in either, you know, the casual

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conversations or like we'll be talking

about, you know, technology on car.

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And this will emerge

out of the discussion.

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Anthony Perl: I think it's a fascinating

point as well to kick this off, is

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that you as someone independent coming

in, get to hear things that maybe

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the owners and the managers get to

hear, but only in a different way.

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Whereas the willingness to share in this

way is quite informal in many respects,

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and allows it to be free flowing.

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And I think it allows you to then take

a perspective and really address it.

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And I think that's what we're

gonna do in this series.

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So I think it's done with.

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A lot of

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Andrew Uglow: great insight.

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Yeah.

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And the technicians, because I don't

employ them, they don't work for me.

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I don't have a stake in

their financial performance.

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Like I definitely, as a trainer, as a

coach, I definitely have a stake in seeing

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them be successful without question.

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And at the same time, they can tell me

anything and there's no repercussions.

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You know, there's no, well, you know,

you're fired or you can't say that, or

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you, you know, we have to work within

the bounds of good HR policy for sure.

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But the genuineness with which

this is expressed is, um,

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really, really quite powerful.

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Anthony Perl: So without a further

due, we are getting to the first of

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the complaints, which is probably the

one that I guess is the most obvious

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in many respects, whether how true it

is, well, let's explore some of this.

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They don't get paid enough,

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Andrew Uglow: and I'm sure as a

service manager or a workshop owner,

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you'd had this technician comes to

you and go, I want you to pay me more.

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I certainly know my

experience as a technician.

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You know, I look at the

metrics that I'm measured by.

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I look at my productivity, my

efficiency, my profitability.

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If that's how I'm being tracked and I

go, actually, I'm doing really well.

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I'm worth more money.

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And so I approach the business and I

go, well, I'm not getting paid enough.

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And that's a, that's a, that's

fairly heavy conversation, isn't it?

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And so I, I wanna just

put on my diagnostic hat.

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As a trainer, as a technician,

coach, and go, well, okay, let's put

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on a a thinking cap and go, well,

are you not getting paid enough?

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Is that actually a thing or is this,

is there something more to this?

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Just like I would with

a customer's concern.

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Customer says, my car's air

conditioning isn't cold.

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Well, I go, well, okay, well, let's

go and test to see whether the

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air conditioning's cold or not.

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It might be, and it might be something.

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With the customer.

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The customer's not using it correctly,

or they've got it set to, I don't know,

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something and it's how it's applied

versus what's actually happening.

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And so let's go and test this.

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I don't get paid enough and you

know, they don't pay me enough.

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I should be paid more money.

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These types of complaints.

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And the first question I wanna ask is,

well, what are you comparing that to?

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Because.

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If you are comparing yourself to

the, you know, the CEO of Telstra

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or you know Anthony Albanese as

the Prime Minister, well sure they

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get paid a whole lot more money.

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And how do you justify that comparison?

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Well, that's an interesting

discussion, but like, what are

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you actually comparing it to?

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And, and so when we go and test

this, and the first question that

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we look for when we are doing

any diagnosis is, is this valid?

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Is it actually what the

customer's complaining about?

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And is that a fault?

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You know, so we go back to the idea,

well, I'm not getting paid enough.

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Well, is that actually.

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Correct.

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Is that actually how you say it is?

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And is that a problem?

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And I'm gonna go, well, it may or may not

be how we say it is, but it's certainly a

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problem because now I'm getting feedback.

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Right now I'm getting

response from my technicians.

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And if I don't address the concern.

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It's the same as me not

addressing a customer's concern.

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I'm gonna lose the customer, right?

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So here I'm gonna lose my tech.

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And the technicians are the

heart and soul of a workshop.

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If you don't have good

productive technicians, how

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can you possibly be profitable?

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How can you satisfy customers?

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How can you do any of these outcomes

that the business is built to do?

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So compared to what?

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And often, I don't know, we, we get, the

first comparison is with other trades.

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Well compared to electricians, compared

to plumbers, compared to, that's,

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that's the first one I'm gonna argue.

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That's a reasonably fair comparison.

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Like, I'm a trade, they're a trade, you

know, they're making more money than me.

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It's not fair.

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You should pay any more

money at a surface level.

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Sorry.

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That's fair.

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The next one is by way of a comparison, is

well look at all the stuff I have to know.

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You know, what's changed for plumbers in

the last 50 years, we've gone from play

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pipes to bully volley uh, PVC pipes.

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Which is like way easier and

much less hard and quicker.

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And so they're even more

efficient than they were.

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The adage goes, well,

excrements still runs downhill.

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That hasn't changed.

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So, so like, why are plumbers

making all this money?

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There's been a change in

technology and how they do stuff.

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Sure.

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You know, laser levels and all this

sort of stuff, so I've gotta know

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physics and chemistry and like, you

pick a topic, I, I have to know it.

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Fluid dynamics, the list goes

on and, oh, why shouldn't I

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get paid more for knowing that?

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Of course.

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The other thing that usually doesn't come

up for technicians is supply and demand.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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I mean, that's an

interesting one, isn't it?

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I mean, is there a lot of them?

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Is there enough to actually

justify, well, there's so few.

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We have to pay some of them more.

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Is it geographic as well?

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You know, there's lots of things

that come into that equation.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Uglow: One of the, like the

automotive industry, like I started in

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the automotive industry a fair time ago.

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I'm an automotive industry lifer.

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You could argue that I'm

an automotive industry.

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Tragic.

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I've been in the industry longer than

I care to admit in excess of 30 years.

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And when I started, there was

a school shortage, then there

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was a lack of technicians, then

there was a lack of apprentices.

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Then we couldn't find good people then.

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And that's been the same.

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Problem.

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And if anything, it's intensified since,

and so you go back to supply and demand.

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Well, okay, that's an issue.

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There's not enough supply,

so the price should go up,

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otherwise they move elsewhere.

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But I still think we're dealing at a

surface level and we haven't really

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got to the core of what's going on.

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Certainly, it's been my

perspective that technicians are

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human, like the rest of this.

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And, and the grass is always

greener, isn't it, Anthony?

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We look on the other side of

the fence and we go, poor.

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Look at those people.

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You know, I, I eighties, tragic.

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I point to Mark Effler

and money for nothing.

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And the song, you know, look at all

these people, look all the stuff

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that these rock stars get, you know,

like that'd be the life, wouldn't it?

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And I think what we forget to consider

certainly is the technicians maybe

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don't give this sufficient thought.

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Is that often the reason why the

grass is greener is because there's

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more BS on that side of the fence.

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There's BS makes the grass green.

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There's, there's more stuff

to deal with and cope with.

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Not that technicians don't

have a lot to deal with.

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Not that we don't as service management

or workshop ownership have a lot to

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weigh through, but I'm concerned about.

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The validity of the test.

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Now, there are some techs that are

definitely underpaid, and I like the

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idea of paying people more, like taking

money off the table, taking it outta the

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equation, so that now we don't want the

technicians just to work for our money.

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That would be a really enormous mistake

and a really huge opportunity missed

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because if they just work for my money,

I pay them more and they work for my

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money, and sooner or later there'll

be another reason for a pay rise.

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There'll be another reason for

a pay rise, and now we're into a

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challenge where it's not profitable.

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But I'm now relying on this technician

because maybe they are good.

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Maybe they're outstandingly

efficient or profitable or whatever.

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And so it's never enough.

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And so I like the idea of having

technicians not work for money.

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Like pay them well without question,

but don't have them work for your money.

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That's going down a level They

need to work for something.

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Other than money, like by all means

incentivize, by all means pay.

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Well, that shouldn't be the reason

that they're turning up for work,

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because that is playing at a really

shallow level, and it's playing a

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really dangerous game because someone

will tap them on the shoulder and they

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go, Hey Anthony, how about you come to

work for me for another, you know, five

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bucks an hour or another, you know,

a hundred bucks a week, or whatever

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it is, and techs will move for that.

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The Frictionless Workshop Podcast is

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Anthony Perl: brought to

you by Solutions Culture.

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For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes.

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Below, and don't forget to subscribe

so you don't miss an episode.

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Now, back to the podcast.

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Yeah, particularly when you've got,

you know, a cost of living crisis

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and regular differentiations in

interest rates and all of those things

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that are happening all the time.

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If, as you say, the focus

is on the money, then.

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You take away the focus from

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Andrew Uglow: the job.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I go back to, and I think this is

something that the automotive industry as

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a whole is starting to get back to, but

has dropped the ball like quite badly, is

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that it should be about professionalism.

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Like they should come to work

because they're proud of their trade,

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they're proud of their reputation,

they enjoy the challenge, they're

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looking forward to contributing.

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Asked a class full of technicians.

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I said, how many people's

lives have you saved?

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You know, we had a variety

of different people.

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Some had been, some are still

in their apprenticeships.

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They were late third year, early

fourth year, and other people have

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been in the trade for 10, 15 years.

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And I said, well, you know, how

many people's lives have saved

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since you've been in there?

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And it was, was the Microsoft Blue Circle.

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You know, it was like, I've, I've

never even thought about this.

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This was something that

I'd never even considered.

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And I said, well, you've just

come up with subjective number.

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How many cars have you worked on?

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How many cars have had problems?

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How many times have you,

you know, found funky?

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Tires, brakes, suspension, you know,

whatever it is, engine issues, whatever.

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You know, cars coming on tow trucks

that otherwise weren't functional,

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that because you did the job properly.

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This person now drives a safe VE

vehicle versus a dangerous vehicle.

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How many lives have you saved?

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And I go, this is why you

wanna be coming to work for me.

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Because we save people's lives.

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We delight customers.

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Like, don't get me wrong, we.

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Pay you well to do that.

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And at the same time, the

business needs to be profitable.

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There's a, a balance here.

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There's a sweet spot for both

the tech and for the business.

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And so, uh, the idea of working

for money, I think is really bad.

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Interestingly enough that the guys

that have been in the trade for.

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For longer, like 12, 15 years, they

were in tens of thousands of people

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that just subjectively they go, I

would have to be tens of thousands.

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I calculate how many cars I've worked

on, calculate how many have had serious

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issues, and even semi-serious issues.

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It'd be tens of thousands of people.

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So if you think about, even if you didn't

kill someone that resulted in a collision

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or that resulted in a, you know, you think

of all the stress, all the money, all the

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like, that's a very impressive number.

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And that was just one room full of people.

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So why aren't we working for that?

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Why isn't that on the

list of things, you know?

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Why isn't that part of my

motivation as a technical

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professional opportunity to improve?

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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It's a really interesting

situation, isn't it?

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If you can then take

the money off the table.

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The question then becomes is

that motivation actually there?

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You know, what is the underlying

cause for them asking for more money?

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Because is it really about

the money or is it about other

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Andrew Uglow: things?

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Right.

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And so the way you would find

this out is you would test, right?

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Just like you would test, is the

air conditioning really cold?

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But I would run a, a test, I'd use aol.

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I'd use a test to see if the air

conditioning was got, okay, so the

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customer in this case, our technician

says, you don't pay me enough money.

315

: 00:14:09

Well, let's test that and so let's go.

316

: 00:14:12

If I gave you more hours and paid you

at a overtime rate, would that be okay?

317

: 00:14:17

That's gonna give you more money, right?

318

: 00:14:18

Sure.

319

: 00:14:19

The government do.

320

: 00:14:20

The government are awful.

321

: 00:14:21

I I, I won't, I won't use the word just

'cause I'm trying to use polite language.

322

: 00:14:26

They, they're not getting a

Christmas card from me anytime soon.

323

: 00:14:29

They're just, they're just not.

324

: 00:14:30

Yes.

325

: 00:14:31

I think they have opportunity.

326

: 00:14:32

It's the

327

: 00:14:32

Anthony Perl: dangerous part.

328

: 00:14:33

Oh, Don, if we start talking

politics, but I think everyone is you.

329

: 00:14:37

It's, it doesn't,

330

: 00:14:38

Andrew Uglow: they don't make it right.

331

: 00:14:39

And so they definitely

don't make it right.

332

: 00:14:40

And so for the tech, the

government sits into their pocket

333

: 00:14:42

for quite a significant sum.

334

: 00:14:43

You start going, well,

actually is this worth it?

335

: 00:14:45

And the flip side is if you wanna go

and do that equation, like that's a

336

: 00:14:48

whole nother frame to look through.

337

: 00:14:50

So as a business, I look

at the cost of labor.

338

: 00:14:52

So I pay the tech and then I pay the

super, and then I pay my payroll tax.

339

: 00:14:57

And so the cost to me for this

technician's labor is really quite

340

: 00:15:00

high versus what the technician's

getting in their pocket.

341

: 00:15:05

And so I have to charge out.

342

: 00:15:08

A cost rate to the customer.

343

: 00:15:10

So the customer's paying for all of this.

344

: 00:15:12

'cause at the end of the day,

if the customer can't afford

345

: 00:15:14

it, well what do you do?

346

: 00:15:15

You walk, you know, take public transport.

347

: 00:15:17

I don't know what's the alternative.

348

: 00:15:19

And so I have to charge out at my cost

rate, but I'm paying my technician

349

: 00:15:22

at the other rate, but I'm not making

all of that money in the difference.

350

: 00:15:25

The government's sticking their

hand into the text pocket, into the

351

: 00:15:28

customer's pocket and into my pocket.

352

: 00:15:30

And I'm very confident that there's a word

that begins with B that would describe

353

: 00:15:34

what that is and ends in master degree.

354

: 00:15:37

But and get the point of taxes.

355

: 00:15:40

But like how far?

356

: 00:15:42

Too far?

357

: 00:15:42

So we start talking about

the commercial elements here.

358

: 00:15:45

This becomes a very

difficult conversation.

359

: 00:15:48

And so I've asked these

questions for technicians, okay?

360

: 00:15:51

So you're not earning enough

money, you don't feel you're

361

: 00:15:52

being paid what you're worth.

362

: 00:15:54

Got it.

363

: 00:15:55

What if we pay you over?

364

: 00:15:56

I know.

365

: 00:15:56

I don't wanna sacrifice time.

366

: 00:15:57

I don't wanna be spending more of my time.

367

: 00:15:59

Working on cars 'cause I've got

backyards to do or I'd rather relax

368

: 00:16:04

or hobbies or whatever I wanna do.

369

: 00:16:06

And so we end up in, well is

it actually about the money?

370

: 00:16:09

Is that really because it was about

the money, it was purely dollar.

371

: 00:16:12

You'd take the overtime.

372

: 00:16:13

I certainly know I did as a tech.

373

: 00:16:15

There's overtime sign me up

like can I do more overtime?

374

: 00:16:18

Sure.

375

: 00:16:18

I get handled by the tax

department without question.

376

: 00:16:21

But that's why the tax department

exists, isn't it, to handle people.

377

: 00:16:24

At the same time, I end up with more

money, you know, and there's work

378

: 00:16:27

around, there's ways and means and

well, we're not gonna talk about that.

379

: 00:16:30

There's formal and informal payments.

380

: 00:16:31

There's all sorts of ways of doing this.

381

: 00:16:33

But certainly what I see with the

younger technicians is that it's,

382

: 00:16:37

you know, we talk about lifestyle

versus pay versus overtime, and

383

: 00:16:41

there are three competing tensions.

384

: 00:16:42

Yeah, it's about the money,

but it's not just the money.

385

: 00:16:45

It's more complex than just the, the

surface level complaint that we receive.

386

: 00:16:50

And so some of the other things that,

that I've tested, I've gone well.

387

: 00:16:53

You're earning this much

money, where's it going?

388

: 00:16:56

And that's an interesting conversation.

389

: 00:16:59

Okay, so, so you, you are single or you

know, you in a partner with a mortgage

390

: 00:17:04

and or kids, where's the money going?

391

: 00:17:06

And certainly for the younger guys that

are maybe in relationships, but not out

392

: 00:17:10

of home yet, or shared accommodation

or something like that, I, I, you know,

393

: 00:17:13

how much do you spend on food a week?

394

: 00:17:14

And like, it is eye watering.

395

: 00:17:16

The, the money that gets wasted.

396

: 00:17:18

Coming from a, a part Scottish family.

397

: 00:17:20

So one side of my family was part

Scottish and they're very in touch

398

: 00:17:22

with their inner Scotsman, deep

pockets, short arms, all of that.

399

: 00:17:27

My inner Scotsman has a moment.

400

: 00:17:28

It sort of goes pale and slumps

against the wall and collapses.

401

: 00:17:31

You're spending how much?

402

: 00:17:33

And so I go back to the complaint,

okay, well is it really about pay or

403

: 00:17:36

is there something else at play here?

404

: 00:17:38

And I asked the question then

of, of service management.

405

: 00:17:41

If they're managing their finances

badly, well paying them more money

406

: 00:17:45

isn't gonna solve the problem, right?

407

: 00:17:46

That's just a, a self perpetuating loop.

408

: 00:17:48

They get more money putter away on stuff.

409

: 00:17:51

There's no planning, there's

no responsibility, there's

410

: 00:17:53

no acumen around finance.

411

: 00:17:55

So we're just gonna start

another cycle, aren't we?

412

: 00:17:57

And so I ask it, is it worth going well,

how about rather than me paying you more

413

: 00:18:01

money, how about I pay for you to go

and do a class on financial management?

414

: 00:18:05

How would that sound?

415

: 00:18:06

Because I can claim that on tax, right?

416

: 00:18:08

I can call that workplace training and

you get to learn how to manage your money.

417

: 00:18:12

And so now you're actually not

spending your money up against a wall.

418

: 00:18:16

You're actually got some sense and

some logic and some reason around it.

419

: 00:18:18

So I go back to the question,

well, is it, is it really.

420

: 00:18:22

Just about the money because

it could be like you might be

421

: 00:18:25

under pain, but is it that?

422

: 00:18:27

How do you know until you test?

423

: 00:18:30

Anthony Perl: Thanks for

joining us for this deep dive

424

: 00:18:32

into Technician Pay Reality.

425

: 00:18:34

If you found this diagnostic approach

to compensation issues valuable, you

426

: 00:18:38

gonna love what's coming up next.

427

: 00:18:40

In our next episode, we're shifting

from dollars to Dignity as we tackle

428

: 00:18:44

the complaint that technicians

don't get enough recognition.

429

: 00:18:48

Andrew reveals why your.

430

: 00:18:49

Best people feel invisible and shares

groundbreaking research that shows

431

: 00:18:53

exactly how much positive feedback

transforms workplace culture.

432

: 00:18:57

Plus, we'll explore why promoting

your top technician might be the

433

: 00:19:01

worst decision you've ever made.

434

: 00:19:03

Don't miss the recognition revolution

coming up soon, so don't forget to

435

: 00:19:08

subscribe so you never miss an episode.

436

: 00:19:10

This is The Frictionless Workshop

Podcast, produced by podcast done for you.

437

: 00:19:15

Online all details in the show notes.